Difference: PidtagMeeting06 (1 vs. 13)

Revision 13
03 Feb 2008 - Main.GeorgSchepers
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 21 to 21
 
    • Alicia Sanchez (Univ. Mainz) presented her ideas of a ToF detector surrounding her Secondary Vertex Detector for Hypernucliei Experiments. She made simulations with ToF detectors in front of the Barel DIRC and arround her Vertex Detector installed by her in PANDAroot (the latter is a build up with fibers).
  • News from the Muon Counters
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    • Marco Maggiora showed that in 80% of the cases one of the two muons comming from the Drell-Young-Process (at 14Gev7c) will go into the Forward Endcap region. An identification via a Muon Detector placed in the Endcap would reduce the dipion background sufficiently. Alternativly the Muon group is searching (until December 07) for kinematic cuts to eliminate the pions.
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    • Marco Maggiora showed that in 80% of the cases one of the two muons comming from the Drell-Yan-Process (at 14Gev/c) will go into the Forward Endcap region. An identification via a Muon Detector placed in the Endcap would reduce the dipion background sufficiently. Alternativly the Muon group is searching (until December 07) for kinematic cuts to eliminate the pions.
 
  • Definition for Separation Power
    • It was quoted and agreed that it is very important to have one clear definition of the separation power when we want to decide in the TAG for the most powerful detector setup, when we want to give recomendations to the collaboration and last but not least when we want to give presentations on conferences.
Revision 12
11 Dec 2007 - Main.GeorgSchepers
Line: 1 to 1
 
META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Revision 11
27 Nov 2007 - Main.GeorgSchepers
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
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Remark: For a status report of the PID TAG work (Georg Schepers) and an Endcap RICH Review (Bjoern Seitz) given at the PANDA Technical Board meeting duricng this PANDA meeting see: http://panda-wiki.gsi.de/cgi-bin/view/Tagpid/TasksandResults.

  Results and Decisions

Revision 10
04 Oct 2007 - Main.GeorgSchepers
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 36 to 36
 

-- GeorgSchepers - 20 Sep 2007
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-- KlausFoehl - 04 Oct 2007

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temporary starage:

 
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-- KlausFoehl - 04 Oct 2007

  • PNG image of the one slide shown:
    PNG image of the one slide shown
 
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Klaus Foehl on separation definition" date="1190304567" name="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="ToF Detector for second vertex experiments" date="1190363674" name="ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" size="556544" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Status of the Muon Counters" date="1190363731" name="200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" size="1497088" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="PNG image of the one slide shown" date="1190798056" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" size="13634" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="generated PDF from PPT with OpenOffice Export filter" date="1191507492" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21again.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21again.pdf" size="416877" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="The same with changed name" date="1191511613" name="klausfoehl_sigma3_gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl_sigma3_gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="LarsSchmitt" version="1.1"
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Separation Power definitions" date="1191513870" name="klausfoehlsigma4gsi2007sept21again.pdf" path="klausfoehlsigma4gsi2007sept21again.pdf" size="416877" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
Revision 9
04 Oct 2007 - Main.KlausFoehl
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 37 to 37
  -- GeorgSchepers - 20 Sep 2007

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    • please download and then locally display PDF files - web server problem
 
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  • PNG image of the one slide shown:
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Klaus Foehl on separation definition" date="1190304567" name="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="ToF Detector for second vertex experiments" date="1190363674" name="ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" size="556544" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Status of the Muon Counters" date="1190363731" name="200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" size="1497088" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
Revision 8
04 Oct 2007 - Main.LarsSchmitt
Line: 1 to 1
 
META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 47 to 47
 
  • PNG image of the one slide shown:
    PNG image of the one slide shown
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Klaus Foehl on separation definition" date="1190304567" name="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="ToF Detector for second vertex experiments" date="1190363674" name="ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" size="556544" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Status of the Muon Counters" date="1190363731" name="200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" size="1497088" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="PDF file regenerated" date="1190798017" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38593" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="PNG image of the one slide shown" date="1190798056" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" size="13634" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="generated PDF from PPT with OpenOffice Export filter" date="1191507492" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21again.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21again.pdf" size="416877" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="The same with changed name" date="1191511613" name="klausfoehl_sigma3_gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl_sigma3_gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="LarsSchmitt" version="1.1"
Revision 7
04 Oct 2007 - Main.KlausFoehl
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 37 to 37
  -- GeorgSchepers - 20 Sep 2007

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-- KlausFoehl - 04 Oct 2007
 
  • PNG image of the one slide shown:
    PNG image of the one slide shown
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="ppt file" date="1190797931" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.ppt" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.ppt" size="142336" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="PDF file regenerated" date="1190798017" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38593" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="PNG image of the one slide shown" date="1190798056" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" size="13634" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="generated PDF from PPT with OpenOffice Export filter" date="1191507492" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21again.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21again.pdf" size="416877" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
Revision 6
26 Sep 2007 - Main.KlausFoehl
Line: 1 to 1
 
META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 36 to 36
 

-- GeorgSchepers - 20 Sep 2007
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Klaus Foehl on separation definition" date="1190304567" name="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="ToF Detector for second vertex experiments" date="1190363674" name="ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" size="556544" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Status of the Muon Counters" date="1190363731" name="200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" size="1497088" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Definition of Separation Power - Contribution to the Discussion" date="1190363844" name="separationpower.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\separationpower.ppt" size="64000" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="ppt file" date="1190797931" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.ppt" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.ppt" size="142336" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="PDF file regenerated" date="1190798017" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38593" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="PNG image of the one slide shown" date="1190798056" name="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" path="klausfoehl.sigma4.gsi2007sept21.png" size="13634" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
Revision 5
24 Sep 2007 - Main.KlausFoehl
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 30 to 30
 
    • The TAG decided to have a decision on the definition of the separation power before the RICH Conference (15th to 20th of Oktober 07). Klaus Foehl will collect informations from experts from other experiments.
  • next meeting (vrvs) should take place two weeks after this meeting
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As of 2007-09-24, I have one reply, from Christian Joram at CERN. Regarding the name, he is using "Resolving Power", but he does not think that there is a firmly established name. He is giving two references: T. Ypsilantis et al., NIM A 343 (1994) 30-51, formulas 11 and 12 ; also used by Glaessel and others: NIM A 433 (1999) 17-23, formulas 18 and 19. Both papers are proceedings of introductory overview talks to previous RICH conferences, all these formula are of the |position1-position2|/sigma type. -- KlausFoehl - 24 Sep 2007
 

-- GeorgSchepers - 20 Sep 2007
Revision 4
21 Sep 2007 - Main.GeorgSchepers
Line: 1 to 1
 
META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007
Line: 14 to 14
 

  • PID with a ToF detector for a secondary target experiment
Changed:
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    • Alicia Sanchez (Univ. Mainz) presented her ideas of a ToF detector surrunding her Secondary Vertex Detector for Hypernucliei Experiments. She made simulations with a ToF detectors in front of the Barel DIRC and arround her Vertex Detector installed in PANDAroot (the latter is a build up with fibers).
>
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    • Alicia Sanchez (Univ. Mainz) presented her ideas of a ToF detector surrounding her Secondary Vertex Detector for Hypernucliei Experiments. She made simulations with ToF detectors in front of the Barel DIRC and arround her Vertex Detector installed by her in PANDAroot (the latter is a build up with fibers).
 
Changed:
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    • Marco Maggiora showed that in 80% of the cases one of the two muons comming from the Drell-Young-Process will go into the Forward Endcap region. An Identification via a Muon Detector placed in the Endcapwould reduce the dipion background sufficiently. Alternativly the Muon group is searching for kinematic cuts to eliminate the pions.
>
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    • Marco Maggiora showed that in 80% of the cases one of the two muons comming from the Drell-Young-Process (at 14Gev7c) will go into the Forward Endcap region. An identification via a Muon Detector placed in the Endcap would reduce the dipion background sufficiently. Alternativly the Muon group is searching (until December 07) for kinematic cuts to eliminate the pions.
 
Changed:
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    • It was quoted and agreed that it is very important now to have one clear definition of the separation power when we want to decide in the TAG for the most powerful detector setup, when we want to give recomendations to the collaboration and last but not least when we want to give presentations on conferences.
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    • It was quoted and agreed that it is very important to have one clear definition of the separation power when we want to decide in the TAG for the most powerful detector setup, when we want to give recomendations to the collaboration and last but not least when we want to give presentations on conferences.
 
Changed:
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The discussion made clear that there are also in different experiments different definitions used.
        • One definition which is more konservative Nsigma=(Mean1-Mean2)/(sigma1+sigma2) gives the numbers of sigma (Nsigma) being directly connected with the probability of identification (3sigma separation meaning 99% of identified particles).
        • Another Nsigma=(Mean1-Mean2)/((sigma1+sigma2)/2) takes more into account the possibility of different sigmas for both distributions and is used by other experiments too (CLEO). Also the definition of Nsigma found in the Particle Data Book (Volume 33, July 2006, p. 278) is connected with this proposed formula but names more the separation in sigma units of the gaussian distribution obtained by a (Cherenkov) detector for two particle species and less the separation power of this detector.
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        • The discussion made clear that there are also in different experiments different definitions used.
        • One definition which is more conservative Nsigma=(Mean1-Mean2)/(sigma1+sigma2) gives the numbers of sigma (Nsigma) being directly connected with the probability of identification (3sigma separation meaning 99% of identified particles).
        • Another Nsigma=(Mean1-Mean2)/((sigma1+sigma2)/2) is already used by other experiments (e.g. CLEO). Also the definition of Nsigma found in the Particle Data Book (Volume 33, July 2006, p. 278) is connected with this proposed formula but names it the separation in sigma units of the gaussian distribution obtained by a (Cherenkov) detector for two particle species rather than the separation power of this detector.
 
        • The TAG decided to have a decision on the definition of the separation power before the RICH Conference (15th to 20th of Oktober 07). Klaus Foehl will collect informations from experts from other experiments.
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  • next meeting (vrvs) should take place two weeks after this meeting
 

Revision 3
21 Sep 2007 - Main.GeorgSchepers
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
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  Agenda of the 6th meeting, GSI, 20.09.2007

Line: 15 to 13
  Results and Decisions

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  • PID with a ToF detector for a secondary target experiment
    • Alicia Sanchez (Univ. Mainz) presented her ideas of a ToF detector surrunding her Secondary Vertex Detector for Hypernucliei Experiments. She made simulations with a ToF detectors in front of the Barel DIRC and arround her Vertex Detector installed in PANDAroot (the latter is a build up with fibers).
  • News from the Muon Counters
    • Marco Maggiora showed that in 80% of the cases one of the two muons comming from the Drell-Young-Process will go into the Forward Endcap region. An Identification via a Muon Detector placed in the Endcapwould reduce the dipion background sufficiently. Alternativly the Muon group is searching for kinematic cuts to eliminate the pions.
  • Definition for Separation Power
    • It was quoted and agreed that it is very important now to have one clear definition of the separation power when we want to decide in the TAG for the most powerful detector setup, when we want to give recomendations to the collaboration and last but not least when we want to give presentations on conferences.
    • To initiate the discussion we had two contributions to different definitions on the Seperation Power:
The discussion made clear that there are also in different experiments different definitions used.
        • One definition which is more konservative Nsigma=(Mean1-Mean2)/(sigma1+sigma2) gives the numbers of sigma (Nsigma) being directly connected with the probability of identification (3sigma separation meaning 99% of identified particles).
        • Another Nsigma=(Mean1-Mean2)/((sigma1+sigma2)/2) takes more into account the possibility of different sigmas for both distributions and is used by other experiments too (CLEO). Also the definition of Nsigma found in the Particle Data Book (Volume 33, July 2006, p. 278) is connected with this proposed formula but names more the separation in sigma units of the gaussian distribution obtained by a (Cherenkov) detector for two particle species and less the separation power of this detector.
        • The TAG decided to have a decision on the definition of the separation power before the RICH Conference (15th to 20th of Oktober 07). Klaus Foehl will collect informations from experts from other experiments.
 
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  -- GeorgSchepers - 20 Sep 2007
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Klaus Foehl on separation definition" date="1190304567" name="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="ToF Detector for second vertex experiments" date="1190363674" name="ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\ASanchez-PandaMtingPID-20-09-2007.ppt" size="556544" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Status of the Muon Counters" date="1190363731" name="200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\200709.status_report_Darmstadt.pub.ppt" size="1497088" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Definition of Separation Power - Contribution to the Discussion" date="1190363844" name="separationpower.ppt" path="C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Jorjito\Desktop\separationpower.ppt" size="64000" user="GeorgSchepers" version="1.1"
Revision 2
20 Sep 2007 - Main.KlausFoehl
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META TOPICPARENT name="MeetingsandWorkshops"
Line: 18 to 18
 

-- GeorgSchepers - 20 Sep 2007
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META FILEATTACHMENT attr="" comment="Klaus Foehl on separation definition" date="1190304567" name="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" path="klausfoehl.sigma3.gsi2007sept21.pdf" size="38589" user="KlausFoehl" version="1.1"
 
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